Reefton Jack

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Posts by Reefton Jack

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  11

  Did you like your High School years?

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i got a e-mail on my myspace account from someone i went to high school with.

  of all 400 people in my graduating class, i keep in touch with one and it is maybe a e-mail or christmas card once a year.

  i was a very shy person in high school, graduated in 1989, a mix between a person wanting to be a witness and someone wanting to have some worldly fun.

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  Reefton Jack

  I definitely DID NOT like High School - even though I did well there. Little of this dislike had anything to do with religious issues. I think that it was more from the frustrations of being penned up: - when most young men at least need an outlet for their (almost boundless - and usually destructive!) physical energy. School holidays were great! For myself and all the other boys I was at school with, it meant gut-busting work on the family farm; yet we never viewed that as work. I can recall being assured that " your school days are the best days of your life" - and thinking at the time that whoever said that must have something wrong with them! Now, I can understand how those feelings can develop i.e. far enough away in the past that you tend to forget about the bad, and only remember the positive things. However, I dont include myself in the category of those who view their High School days as the best time of their life! Jack.
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  170

  Let's just get something straight about 1975.

  by WTFBBQPWNT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  nobody ever said that the end was coming in 1975.. all the hype about this date that has continued all the way down through today came from a talk in the early 70's by fred franz.

  in this talk, franz pointed out the significance of the 7 creative days and how they correspond with 1,000-year time intervals.. he then said, "could the end come in 1975?

  there's so much wrong with jehovah's witnesses from their rigid legalism to their faux love, but let's call a spade a spade about the 1975 thing..

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  Reefton Jack

  The observation that the WTS never actually stated in writing that the "End of the System" would come in 1975 is true enough as far as it goes: - the only trouble is, it does not quite go far enough! From mid-1966 onwards,the Watchtower Society's publications repeatedly left the thought hanging there that 1975 would see the end "of the system." - Alan F's excellent post of October 5th on this subject lists in detail instances where the Society did this. Starting from 1966,for 28 years I was an avid reader of whatever the WTS published. I well remember reading (unfortunately with intense interest!)all those articles about 1975. If this was a one-of instance, you could maybe, just maybe, put it down to a case of inept communication. However, by repeatedly leaving that thought hanging there, it is obvious that the Society wanted its readers to conclude that 1975 would see Armegeddon. Certainly, that is what readers of these articles did conclude: - I can well remember my first introduction to the matter of 1975. It was just after my mother ( never a JW) had finished reading the article about 1975 in the Oct 8 1966 issue of the "Awake" magazine. Her first remark from reading this was that "Armegeddon is going to happen in 1975". The issue here is not so much what the WTS actually wrote: - It is rather the (calculated) effect that this had on its readers. In this, as with many other things, the WTS wuld like to rewrite history. But, rather like the apologists for the Holocaust, their own written records condemn them. My five cents worth, anyway! Jack.
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  17

  Do/did you have a nickname?

  by greendawn in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i had one at school and fortunately it wasn't derogatory as they called me "the brainbox" because i was good at lessons.

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  Reefton Jack

  I only ever had one nickname in my life - and to this day, I don't know how I ever got branded with the nickname "Quickdraw."

  But during the first year of my apprenticeship, that is what the others in the group dubbed me with (No pun intended!).

  Jack.
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  15

  How many people in this forum are from NewZealand??

  by ania in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello i am a newbie and just saw another person in the forum from nz.

  it hadn't even occured to me...now i wonder how many there are??

  ?

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  Reefton Jack

  One more of us, at least, Ania!
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  8

  F.Franz in court - english meaning

  by mineralogist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (q): can you, yourself, translate that into hebrew?.

  (q): that fourth verse of the second chapter of genesis?.

  (a): no, i won't attempt to do that.. what franz "wouldn't attempt" to translate into hebrew is what many have said as a simple exercise an average first or second-year hebrew student in seminary would be able to do.

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  Reefton Jack

  Why else would F.W. Franz decline to translate from Hebrew into English - if for no other reason that that he could not?

  As for the claim that translating your own native language into another is more difficult than the reverse:

  - all I can say is that I use a foreign language in my everyday work; and have at no time found it any more difficult to translate English into Tok Pisin, than I have at translating Tok Pisin into English.

  Mi ting ting Frederick Franz, em tok giaman - em tok giaman tru!

  If, as some claim, the NWT is a reasonably accurate translation - then F.W. Franz must have got that right in spite of himself.

  Jack.
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  51

  Aussies/Canadians of JWD most laid back~

  by FlyingHighNow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was thinking today, i've been here at jwd for nearly three years now.

  i've observed that our aussie members are the most laid back members on the board here.they don't take their country, their politics or anything too seriously really.

  people who are from europe tend to be more laid back than the brits and americans.

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  Reefton Jack

  I have just finished reading Dansk's view of the world. One thing there was quite correct - SOMEONE has got their brains caved in! Jack.
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  8

  How many cars were bought to last until Armageddon

  by sspo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i never did, never had the faith that it would come in my lifetime.

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  Reefton Jack

  I actually knew of a set of tyres that were supposed to see the car through to the end, according to the Elder that drove this certain Fiat 125.

  The year was, you might have guessed it - 1975.

  Jack.
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  17

  The first signals of doubt?

  by The wanderer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower and the deciding factors

  can you recall the very first inner voices of doubt that.

  you carried about the watchtower society?

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  Reefton Jack

  For me, it was 1975:

  - Firstly, all the hype that there was in the nine years leading up to that.

  - Then, when the year came and went; the total silence about it on the part of the WTS. Not even any attempt at an explanation, just like the whole business had never happened.

  I think that my feelings at first were total confusion. Then, comments from one of the elders in our congregation rang warning bells. This brother was a former missionary (Gilead trained), a former District Overseer, and at that point had been "in the truth" for over 30 odd years. He one day remarked that "the Society has just got to admit that they were wrong over the issue of 1975."

  That comment somehow didn't add up:

  - i.e.

  (i) That somehow "we may be wrong, but we are still right."

  AND FURTHERMORE

  (ii) "While others may not be wrong, we are still the only ones who are right!"

  I would readily volunteer that I went through a long period of denial. But over the years, this had a snow-balling effect that in the end could not be denied any more. Such things as the WTS trying to rewrite history; no love amongst themselves (that they kept saying that they had this,and that no one else did); no collection plate, but still a lot of talk from the platform about money.

  But it was 1975 and the way that it was handled that started the process.

  Jack.
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  16

  We don't pass the plate, we just demand the $$

  by lost_light06 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the other night during the announcements between the ministry school and service meeting there was a letter read.

  i pretty much tuned out the whole thing but what did catch my ear was the request that $4.50 per publisher be contributed by each cong.

  for whatever bogus committee the letter was dealing with (sorry i cant be more specific, i honestly dont remember what it was for).

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  Reefton Jack

  It was this sort of talk that was nearly the final straw for me some 15 - 20 years ago.

  The WTS was always on about "Materialism" (even though many of the R&F had no idea what the term actually meant!). No one was supposed to have money - except when the congregation needed it, like when they wanted to build a new Kingdom Hall or Assembly Hall.

  Then, all those who were told that they should not have money were supposed to suddenly come up with the necessary funds.

  If these funds were slow in appearing, then condemnatory talks from the platform followed, until they were!

  Jack.
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  47

  A Fair View of Fred Franz' Translation Abilities

  by IW in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i thought these comments on channel c were fair views of fred franz' translation, not to mention a little surprising.

  a breath of fresh air.

  http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index2.cgi?frames=no&board=main&mode=current&message=21782.

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  Reefton Jack

  At the time of the Walsh case in 1954, work on the New World Translation would have been in progress. Therefore, the linguistic skills that F.W. Franz displayed at that court case serve as a fair indicator of those that he had while the NWT was being compiled.

  (It is possible that his knowledge of Hebrew and Common Greek may have improved over the decades following those events).

  I myself have studied a number of foreign languages, and use one in particular during my everyday work. In saying this, I am not claiming scholarship (certainly not!) - just a reasonable working knowledge of the language.

  From that, though, I do have a problem with the claim that - for an amateur at least - it is much harder to translate English into a foreign language than it is to do the opposite. Speaking from my own experience, I have never at any time had any more difficulty translating English into a foreign language, than I have in working the other way around. The two just seemed to naturally go hand in hand.

  However, I don't intend to be dragged into a #$tfight over that issue!

  Rather, if F.W. Franz's inability to translate a verse from English into Hebrew marked him as an amateur, then that still poses a problem:

  - Should the translation of something as important as the bible be entrusted to an amateur?

  It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the NWT - and if Franz did indeed end up with a reasonably accurate translation, then it would seem that he managed to do so in spite of himself!